The PAD's Blockade of Government House and Parliament

[Tench]

garyless wrote:

. Among those supporting PAD is the majority of mass media journalists and editors. This should be quite obvious from several editorials in this publication, and also The Nation.

Just take today's Bangkok Post editorial for instance:

There can be no justification for the authorities to have used such force to disperse the peaceful crowd. According to eyewitnesses, no warning was given by the police prior to the raid. Dozens of tear gas canisters were fired into the unprepared crowd, to the extent that police appeared to have acted with excessive force.

I'd love to know who wrote that. Occupying Government House is a peaceful act? "the unprepared crowd"? -- What were the police supposed to do? hand out gas masks first?

To the editorial writer at BK Post, here's a suggestion:

1. Visit London with at least fifty of your friends.

2. Try to occupy the House of Commons

3. See what happens next.

[DocN]

I have read carefully through most of your comments on here...and I can't believe, what I am reading!

Just because it is a "tradition" in Thailand to buy votes...that is ...good?
Or acceptable?

Other countries would have dealt differently with PAD?
Right!
In Myanmar they would have just shot them!
In Nazi- Germany they would have put them in concentration camps and gassed them!
In China they would have had tanks rolled over them!
Is THAT what you want?
Is that the "swift" and "clean" solution, that will bring back your beloved tourists and investors?

A guy gets elected by a majority and uses his time as the head of state to make himself and his family richer by stealing from YOU!
And the people who are pointing that out are "gansters"?

The people in the Northeast are too stupid to vote "right"?!
Well...it's your country and when you accept the fact that a vast majority is not being educated (because they are poor) and they are so poor that 6.000 Bath for them is enough money to buy their votes, because it's a 1 or 2 months salary for them...it is THEIR fault???

Maybe some of you, enjoying the safety and security of a well payed job, should invest more energy in making this land a better place for all, instead of pointing their fingers at others, while they are enjoying a Johnny Walker and a Patpong -girl on their lap!
I am not saying what the PAD did is right or that they are a majority or whatever...but THIS is democracy!

Where I come from (Hamburg, Germany) these things happen every other week.
(Ok...not the deads!) Demonstrations often end in violence, because boneheads on both sides are making things worse.
But for christs (or whoevers) sake: they were SITTING in a HOUSE!
Is THAT a verification to rip their legs out???

Let me tell you one thing: the way to a real democracy is hard and sometimes painfull...but if you want to go it, you will be rewarded with the best political system thinkable!

What most of YOU want, is not democracy!
It's a military state, where everybody who happens to voice another opinion out loud or is willing to take it to the streets is silenced immediately, so no one will be disturbed!
Let me remind you of one thing: the absence of war is NOT peace!
The absence of noone voicing criticsm, does not mean everything is ok!

By the way: I work in toursim and I am looking "forward" to a very "pleasant" time ahead!
Tourists WILL stay away!
But that is not a fault of PAD!
This is a fault of THAILAND, promoting the picture of a paradise without the snake!
If YOU had a more realistic approach towards your own country or at least the decensy to admit that not everything that glitters, is gold, the uproar now, would be much less loud!

[bella]

My goodness.... It's such a shame. The world is looking at us and we are acting like uncivilized people. Smart people will fight with words and brain. Uneducated people fight with violence. This PAD Blockade of government house just shows what we are. I am not against with the PAD's idea but I am against their act. Really hope they will think of something smarter to do.

But this PM is still the brother in law of Taksin. And it's very obvious what kind of game this Taksin group are playing. So why won't they just give it up and dissolve the parliament. It's like everyone knows what card they are holding and they are still playing the game and acting as if nothing is going on. It's a bit too thick face. PAD thinks that this group are not giving up because there are still a lot of mega project that they need to get money out of. And if this Taksin group is not going to cheat the country and lobby money out of the project, why won't they give up? Why are they holding to their seat so tight?

But the problem is who is good enough to rule the country? One is to immature and unprofessional. The other is too greedy and smart. There is no one in between.

[thailand lover]

i am in favour of the police/military using decisive force to quell the protesters.

come on, look at the way the PAD is carrying out its 'peaceful demonstrations' and 'civil disobedience'. any right-minded observer who is not half blind or stupid can tel that these protesters are by no standard anywhere near reasonable or peaceful!!

show the world that thailand is not a country without laws...send in more police and suppress these violent anarchists.

the military keeps saying they will take directives from the govt, and yet they refuse to act. when wil they? when the country falls apart? when there are more deaths? oh man can someone show me that thailand stil has some sense

[DocN]

"show the world that thailand is not a country without laws...send in more police and suppress these violent anarchists."


Anarchy (from Greek: αναρχία anarchía, "without ruler") may refer to any of the following:

"Absence of government; a state of lawlessness due to the absence or inefficiency of the supreme power; political disorder."[1]
"A theoretical social state in which there is no governing person or body of persons, but each individual has absolute liberty (without the implication of disorder)."[2]
"Absence or non-recognition of authority and order in any given sphere."[3]
Without government or law
A state, free from coercive authority of any kind, is the goal of proponents of the political philosophy of anarchism (anarchists). Anarchy is distinct from omniarchy, a chaotic situation in which all rule over all, in the sense that anyone can commit aggression against any other person.[4]

Just so you can at least READ what you are talking about!
Where -in the name of Chang Beer- is your ANARCHY?
Thailandlover...from which country are you, where prostesting and blocking a public ground is already called "anarchy"!
Sure send in more police...and the military...just kill'em all!
Peace at last!

[thailand lover]

Well, DocN, I thought u just defined it for me? May be you would want to look at your own definitions. As far as I am aware, I am not the only one calling this situation anarchy. Or maybe u want to call it peace?

I am not a sadist who wants to see more bloodbath. Sometimes u just need the use of force to establish the bedrock of peace (if not, at least stability) to make conditions favourable for further negotiations/progress.

A House dissolution is as useless as getting rid of thaksin’s regime because it is not him nor his cronies that is the cancer here. This is a contest of the will between the country’s new generation of politicians and their advocates, against the old traditionalists.

[GaryLess]

"show the world that thailand is not a country without laws...send in more police and suppress these violent anarchists."

Anarchy (from Greek: αναρχία anarchía, "without ruler") may refer to any of the following:

"Absence of government; a state of lawlessness due to the absence or inefficiency of the supreme power; political disorder."[1]
"A theoretical social state in which there is no governing person or body of persons, but each individual has absolute liberty (without the implication of disorder)."[2]
"Absence or non-recognition of authority and order in any given sphere."[3]
Without government or law
A state, free from coercive authority of any kind, is the goal of proponents of the political philosophy of anarchism (anarchists). Anarchy is distinct from omniarchy, a chaotic situation in which all rule over all, in the sense that anyone can commit aggression against any other person.[4]

Just so you can at least READ what you are talking about!
Where -in the name of Chang Beer- is your ANARCHY?
Thailandlover...from which country are you, where prostesting and blocking a public ground is already called "anarchy"!
Sure send in more police...and the military...just kill'em all!
Peace at last!

I would say that point [1] qualifies and also [3].

When people can occupy the Parliament and incapacitate the government without any legal repercussions, that is pretty much anarchy.

[thailand lover]

a few further observations:

1. i hope the news-reporting community in thailand, and particularly in BKK, can be more professional and objective. pls do not call yourself a journalist if u want to take sides -- there are plenty of political parties you can join. by reporting one-sided stories, these news organisations (bkkpost included) are marginalizing a large proportion of the still-sensible population.

2. what the main oppostion party -- the democrats -- have done so far is really lowly. i would brand them the 'ugly' if this were 'the good, the bad, and the ugly' (i don know who the 'good' would be, sadly). sowing the seeds of discord in an-alrady tense situation is the least one would expect from a self-respecting party. i feel that they would really have gotten the respect of electorate and the other parties if they came forth to support the govt and show good sportsmanship.

[Nio]

It is extremely hard to be democratic when the people controlling the government are anarchists. As an expat, you have to be pretty ignorant, or have not been in Thailand very long to realize this is all of Thaksin's doing. He is a criminal on the run, his brother in law, who amassed a fortune even though he spent his career as in government, claims that he can be fair and impartial?

Say what?

His 27 year old daughter who works as a MP in Chiang Mai has amassed over 300,000,000 thb. She claimed she borrowed 100 million from Thaksin relatives. Now ask yourself if this family is close enough to loan a 27 year old 100,000,000 thb how impartial is this PM going to be towards Thaksin when the recipient of that 100,000,000 thb is his own daughter?

The fact that people have died so this government can rewrite the constitution to protect Thaksin is a travesty of justice. The current Prime Minister needs to be tried for the deaths of these protesters and locked up.

When an anarchy/dictatorship (handful of rich cronies) controls the power and tries rewrite the rules to protect one man, the people have just course to rise up and overthrow the government. This is nothing new and has happened throughout history all over the world.

The Thaksin era needs to be put to rest, he and has family needs to be imprisoned for breaking the law and any other policitians thinking greed and corruption is more important than the welfare of the nation, need to get the same thing.

Bless those Senators such as Rosana that are standing up for the people. Bless the Pilot that refused to let the MP board a Thai Airways Flight.

Now is time for Thailand to finally make a stand for a real democracy, not an anachist puppet dictatorship.

[GaryLess]

I have read carefully through most of your comments on here...and I can't believe, what I am reading!

Just because it is a "tradition" in Thailand to buy votes...that is ...good?
Or acceptable?

No it is not good. But this is the first time it is considered bad enough to paralyze the parliamentary system. It was OK for the old elite to do it, but not for the new.

Other countries would have dealt differently with PAD?
Right!
In Myanmar they would have just shot them!
In Nazi- Germany they would have put them in concentration camps and gassed them!
In China they would have had tanks rolled over them!
Is THAT what you want?

No, but let us compare to what they would have done in Scandinavia, England, France etc, not the top ranked dictatorships.
But of course, these countries have police, army and a legal system that works.

Is that the "swift" and "clean" solution, that will bring back your beloved tourists and investors?

No, but maybe you can enlighten us as to the 'democratic' solution PAD offers? (beyond dissolving the parliament)
Another election is not an option for PAD as far as I have heard.

A guy gets elected by a majority and uses his time as the head of state to make himself and his family richer by stealing from YOU!
And the people who are pointing that out are "gansters"?

On this one you are right, but I think everybody has got that message now. It is time to be a bit more constructive, and at the same time honour the latest election results. Otherwise, call in the army, establish another military dictatorship, get the old elite back in their comfy seats, and start all over again, including vote buying.
Eliminating vote buying, reducing opportunity for corruption, (get an honest legal system) should be the first target. Maybe then there would be some honest politicians to choose among?

The people in the Northeast are too \\\ ///// to vote "right"?!

Sorry about that one. It was a poor attempt at sarcasm/irony. In fact, with the majority of the Thai population living in that area, it is time to give them some respect. That includes respecting their votes. You do not need an advanced degree to be able to understand what is good for you and your society. The sad fact is that 6000 baht in your hand is a lot more than worthless political promises, whether they come from PPP or the democrats.

Maybe it is worth thinking about why Thaksin got so popular in the first place? I seem to remember that he implemented rights to medical treatment for everybody? In my book that is a brilliant and honest way to gain popularity. He also proposed a scholarship for poor students. That was canceled by the military government. I could be wrong on the details here. Anyway, this only favoured the poor. The old elite only see a huge drain of funds out of Bangkok.

Well...it's your country and when you accept the fact that a vast majority is not being educated (because they are poor) and they are so poor that 6.000 Bath for them is enough money to buy their votes, because it's a 1 or 2 months salary for them...it is THEIR fault???

No, it is the fault of a whole generation of ineffective bureaucrats, politicians and the rest of the power structure.

Maybe some of you, enjoying the safety and security of a well payed job, should invest more energy in making this land a better place for all, instead of pointing their fingers at others, while they are enjoying a Johnny Walker and a Patpong -girl on their lap!

I am not saying what the PAD did is right or that they are a majority or whatever...but THIS is democracy!

No this is not democracy. To protest peacefully is OK.
To occupy government property, disband the ministers from their working offices, hinder the parliamentary system from functioning IS NOT DEMOCRACY.

Where I come from (Hamburg, Germany) these things happen every other week.
(Ok...not the deads!) Demonstrations often end in violence, because boneheads on both sides are making things worse.
But for christs (or whoevers) sake: they were SITTING in a HOUSE!
Is THAT a verification to rip their legs out???

Of course not, but I am sure that the police would have carried them carefully away, feeding them grapes and wine if that had been an option.

Let me tell you one thing: the way to a real democracy is hard and sometimes painfull...but if you want to go it, you will be rewarded with the best political system thinkable!

Absolutely, but PAD and their 'cronies' (I like that word 'crony') behind the scenes are not moving an inch in that direction.

What most of YOU want, is not democracy!
It's a military state, where everybody who happens to voice another opinion out loud or is willing to take it to the streets is silenced immediately, so no one will be disturbed!
Let me remind you of one thing: the absence of war is NOT peace!
The absence of noone voicing criticsm, does not mean everything is ok!

By the way: I work in toursim and I am looking "forward" to a very "pleasant" time ahead!
Tourists WILL stay away!
But that is not a fault of PAD!
This is a fault of THAILAND, promoting the picture of a paradise without the snake!
If YOU had a more realistic approach towards your own country or at least the decensy to admit that not everything that glitters, is gold, the uproar now, would be much less loud!

hallelujah